rangutan
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Posted: 2007-08-02 18:24:00
.... I did not mention or mean "harem" neither "camel caravans" in my posts (page 1), otherwise what great experiences and advice Ta-shy, that would make a super report too. What I mean and we all agree totally that when travelling outside western countries "you will be taken advantage of if your not careful" and women travelling alone in the Islamic world should be even more careful. Eire, I hope you avoid exploring around on your own, some older or well-built women may take the risk but it is not worth it. There is not much to enjoy in the trashy back streets anyway. Please do not ignore this advice!
Ta-shy please do not take this personally or over-react again, as said your tips and experience are great. Also, women should know better how to advise women, sorry about that irrelevant men hugging stuff!
RR
P.S: I understand that a lot of hotels and the resorts on the coast of the Red Sea (Russia's #1 popular tourist destination) are now fenced off to protect visitors and that one will only meet working personnel their. [ This Message was edited by: rangutan on 2007-08-02 21:38 ] ---
Rudolf "Rangutan" Graspointner
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ta-shy
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Posted: 2007-08-02 21:37:00
My comment was based on your sentence
"Not a joke but reality till today, beautiful blond women have often been whisked away to be imprisoned in some remote fortification as collectors items."
As for women travelling alone in the Islamic world, I found myself feeling safer traveling in the muslim countries than anywhere else. With so many tourist police and within the culture itself.. all a woman has to do is call for help and master the word "LA" which means no..
Example: While in Tunis a man grab me in the nether regions on a bus. All I did was yell "DON'T TOUCH ME PIG" in French and the people of the bus took care of the guy. The men and women equally reprimanded the man.
In Morocco I was robbed at an ATM by a drug addict *my fault for letting my guard down*. Although the thief got away I was escorted by bystanders to a taxi, to the police, to the hotel, bought dinner etc.. and these where just regular people.
Getting off a train from Marrakesh in Casablanca, I decided to walk to my hotel because I had no $ on me. I was warned by the women of the country to take a cab hotel because, because a football game just ended and the men were all riled up. I had no $ but they gave me some no questions asked.
As for exploring on your own.. come on now.. that is the heart of all travel. How else are you supposed to find those hidden gems!!! I'm sure if one notices that the back street is trashy they won't go down it.
I don't know what you mean by "some older or well-built women may take the risk but it is not worth it."
Does that mean if your old and big no one will touch you and if your slim in nature you will be mugged or attacked?? That is the dumbest thing I've heard of.. If your perceived to have money you are a target. Period!!
In a Muslim country, and in many others, larger women are preferred to skinny ones. This is probably for baby making reasons. As for older women, I don't think they are attacked as much but I'm sure if they were to flash some wealth they maybe.
I can tell you one thing and anyone can dispute me if I'm wrong, but there is a hierarchy of tourists believe it or not. This hierarchy is based mainly on who is perceived to have 1. wealth 2. easy immigration laws 3. racial tolerance
1. Canadians (anyone who holds the passport no matter the race, creed or culture)
2. Germans (Germans have dropped from #1 because of Immigration tensions within the country)
3. Japanese (It is thought that Japanese have tons of $ because they are always traveling. I have met some men who have actually returned to their country because life was too hard for them in Japan after they "hooked" up with their Japanese mate..
4. Americans --same as Canada however I have noticed that there are more Americans who pass themselves off as Canadians when they travel.
Other countries who's people have $ may not fit in this category because the immigration policies are too strict. ie: Switzerland
Egypt is an easy country to move around in. It has beautiful things to see and is totally worth the trip.
The people are poor and the countries major economy is tourism.. this makes it a safer place to travel.
**keep the tourists safe and happy**
Tashi
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LIFE IS AN ATTITUDE! ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU WISH YOU COULD! ALWAYS!
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rangutan
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Posted: 2007-08-02 22:32:00
... a very reasonable answer but I disagree totally with that heirachy. We should discuss that somewhere else! Thanks and my respect. As a man travelling alone, I often felt very insecure in these countries, you are quite a very brave girl to do that. I still hope and recommend that Eire stays close to a group or organised guide.
RR ---
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ta-shy
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Posted: 2007-08-02 23:20:00
I think that each sex experiences different things when traveling. As for Eire sticking with a group.. In Cairo this may be o.k... just so she doesn't get lost, but for all other parts of Egypt..
knock yourself out.. venture and explore..Egypt is a safe place to go.
Tashi ---
LIFE IS AN ATTITUDE! ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU WISH YOU COULD! ALWAYS!
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rangutan
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Posted: 2007-08-27 23:37:00
Eire/Tashy
Each traveler must know his/hers own limits, abilities and destiny and plan accordingly.
Today I stumbled on this great website while looking for Sinia ferries for Wojtek (and me eventually) but a guy that has been to Egypt 15 times. He recommends:
"Independent travel into Egypt for the 1st experience, is not advised. I have explained elsewhere about how [some books]and others gives the wrong impression or how easy it can be. I have spoken to many people who have tried it this way, and wish they had gone as part of a group (I do not mean a package holiday only – groups can be arranged when you get there!)."
This guy has great tips all about Egypt and info at:
http://www.ask-aladdin.com/tips.html
RR [ This Message was edited by: rangutan on 2007-08-27 23:39 ] ---
Rudolf "Rangutan" Graspointner
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marianne
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Posted: 2007-08-28 13:59:00
Nice and very comprehensive site of Egypt. Rudi, thank you for giving this links.
The owner of the site, Aladdin Khalifa, is a tour director for a number of international travel agencies. No wonder that he recommends [QUOTE] Independent travel into Egypt for the 1st experience, is not advised.[END QUOTE]
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“I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel’s sake. The great affair is to move.” Robert Louis Stevenson
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rangutan
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Posted: 2007-08-28 21:53:00
... I think he just gets a percentage, I found him honest when he suggests the "1st" trip should be in a group and agree with him 100% which applies to new travelers to Africa, not experienced experts of the region!
RR ---
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eirekay
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Posted: 2007-08-28 21:56:00
Rudi,
Thanks for the link! The site has a lot of information. I think we have pin point the items we most want to see - Marianne has sold me on Alexandria and I want to go diving in the Red Sea. My son is reading and earmarking the sites he is most interested in. Even though it is 9 months off, I am so looking forward to it!
Thanks for all the comments - it all has been very helpful!
Eire ---
Life is not measured by the breaths you take but by the moments that take your breath away. Profile Pic: Tikal, Guatemala
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rickiet
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Posted: 2007-10-25 13:46:00
Hi Guys,
Few things floating around on here regarding the age old independant/group travel debate and the issue of security whilst travelling within Egypt. I'll give you my slant - I don't want to enter a debate and accept everything everyone has put as these are everyones personal experiences and therefore how they feel their trip went.
To give a bit of background. I've travelled reasonably extensively throughout the world both as part of a group and independantly. I havnt been anywhere I would consider too obscure or difficult but travel for the sense of adventure and to lap up different cultures and awe inspiring views and sights.
I travelled with Intrepidtravel (as someone has already recommended) and did the Egypt Basix tour about 3 years ago. The trip takes in Cairo (and the Egyptian Museum), the Pyramids and Sphinx at Giza, Azwan, Abu Simbel, 3 day felucca ride, Luxor, Karnak Temple, Donkey ride to the Valley of the Kings, St Katherines, Sinai, the Red Sea and we got a look at the Suez Canal. There are many temples in amongst this like Edfu, Kom Ombo and Luxor but these are all detailed within the itinerary.
I visited Egypt as I was intrigued as to the size and history of the place and how such structures could have been built with the limited technology that they had at the time they were constructed (amongst other reasons). I would always choose to travel independently if it is at all possible. However in this case and holiday time being tight I decided to take part in my first group tour. So firstly the downside - you do lose part (not all!) of that sense of adventure you have when someone else is getting you A to B instead of you having to figure it out yourself. But the flipside is that it could take you 3 days to figure how to get from Cairo to Aswan wheras with intrepid we did it overnight - perfect. I think that what i did in just over 2 1/2 weeks with intrepid would have taken me at least a month to have done by myself and even then there would have been things such as the Nubian Dinner and the Camel Auction that I would not have been aware of and therefore not seen. There is therefore the added bonus of those on the ground having done their research and planning the trip accordingly. All that said, if you're conscious of security or time issues then group travel is the way forward and there's no better company (in my eyes) then intrepid. Intrepid beleive very strongly in responsible tourism, the old motto take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints is firmly adhered to. They try to put as much into the local economy as they can and discourage buying of those that hassle at tourist attractions (for obvious reasons). As far as group dynamics goes, groups vary from one to the next but are made up of many nationalities and a broad array of ages.
Right then the issue of security. I stayed in Dahab about 6 weeks after the bombings of Nuweiba. I found Egypt to be a very safe place overall. Fair play on arrival in Cairo I didnt quite know what to expect and was a shade on edge, but in all honesty I soon settled into their way of doing things and felt very relaxed. Upon departure I could say that in fact of all the places I had been I found Egypt to be probably the safest of everywhere (even western nations such as Australia and America). When you get hassle from anyone trying to sell you anything say La (no) firmly and walk straight by, don't hesitate or flinch or you be there a long time. It is at the large tourist sites where you will find these people, your average egyptian away from these places are really nice, down to earth and generally arent there solely to make a buck out of you. I got talking to an egyptian chap whilst staying in Dahab, he advised me that Egypt was a safe place and that those in prison were there for crimes such as fraud and going AWOL from military duties (I am a sceptical person and beleive this conversation was not for effect). Tourism is a prominent industry in Egypt and any action that upsets, detracts or deters tourists is seriously frowned upon and dealt with seriously by both the Egyptian public and the police.
Now the red sea and diving. WOW it is like a fish tank! All countries/areas around the world have there plus and minus points seemingly depending on when you go and the conditions you catch. For example I felt that the barrier reef has (as the name suggests) amazing coloured reefs and sponges as well as a lot of sharks, turtles and sting ray. Thailand and Indonesia I found to have a vast array of fish and other varieties of small creatures. I think that the red sea rated up there in 1st place. I did 5 dives there (all were shore entry - which was good) and there were all amazing. I can't remember the operator I went with but I think they are pretty much all of a muchness. The visibility there was as far as the eye could see and the water temp was great.
Apoligies if that ramble isnt so concise but hopefully there is something in there you'll find of interest.
You'll love egypt - its superb!
Any questions drop me a line!
Cheers ---
Pre-travel Egypt info and photos visit www.princeofegypt.co-.uk
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muneerabbas
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Posted: 2008-02-29 02:13:00
I wonder why you do not consider jordan. it is a nice place and people are really simple. you do not see the complex life here like in Cairo or Morocco. we have one of the seven wonders in the world, "PETRA" GOOGLE IT. also the dead sea, the lowest point on earth.
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