Suggestions group posting on GLOBOsapiens

Ethic and neutrality in Globo reports

Postings 1 - 9 of 9

jorgesanchez Premium account Joined: May 05 Points: 41625 Posts: 77 Posted: 2005-08-11 10:05:00    Although I am a new Globo member, I have had time to read a lot of reports. I love reading about travels. Many of them are really fantastic; I love especially those written by wojtekd, gloriajames, mistybleu, davidx, britman, whereisliz, downundergal, and many others (sorry if I do not mention more for lack of space). They describe the countries with the beauties and practical information. However, I have noticed that some reports explain about the local conditions with a blatant partial point of view. Recently I have read two of which I am not really satisfied. The first one is about New Caledonia where his author explain very well this beautiful island (I love New Caledonia especially, I made many friends there, French’s and Kanaks during my recent one month stay) and he criticizes the French presence there (French constitute about 50 % of the population) and say that they are colonialist vandalising the island, raping the minerals and many other “beauties”. Well, French Globo members will not be happy to read that, furthermore coming from an Australian. Australian people are wonderful and very generous, and the country a marvel (I worked in Sydney during 6 happy months and I can say), but the aborigines that survived the massacres perpetrated not long ago and of which the present Australians are not guilty (in Tasmania there were completely exterminated, hunted with dogs and poising the water with arsenic) do not live as well as the Kanaks in New Caledonia. The only goal of the Australian Government to request the French retreat of this Island and go back to France is just to substitute them in the minerals exploitation! And, of course, the “white” Australians never will go back to Europe and will leave Australia to the Aborigines. Second case is about a report of Barcelona by a Barcelona member. It is obvious that he belongs or sympathises with a separatist and minor party in that Spanish region, when he states (twice) that Catalan people, being also Celt Iberian and sharing the same history during 2000 years, are “completely different” (and therefore better) than the rest of the Spaniards and other partial views. Again I have to say that I am myself from Barcelona, born in that lovely town, and among my many friends and familiars I do not know anyone thinking like this member, nor my neighbours or listening to the conversations in restaurants, pubs, in gardens, etc. Yes, Spain is a mosaic of cultures, which is our richness, with about ten local languages spoken, apart from the common Spanish. But I would not like that Globo members reading that report would thing differently than from the reality in the streets. I thing that Globo reports are just travelling reports, no politics’, and ought not to be used to show political (or religious, or whatever) points of view because it might hurt other members, and the Management Staff should advise of that to the members that do not comply with this. Thanks for your attention. --- Bonum est faciendum et prosequendum, et malum vitandum. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact jorgesanchez   bear495 Joined: May 03 Points: 8634 Posts: 177 Posted: 2005-08-11 23:48:00    Well said, Jorge. I do not mind a comment upon conditions, but to blatantly assign blame should be left to the politicians, not the travelers. I commented on the living conditions and the economic conditions of an area in one of my reports, but there was no blame given. In fact, it was meant as an accurate description of the struggles of the people in that community. Let's leave the political comments to others on other websites. Russ --- "Own only what you can carry with you; know language, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag." Alexander Solzhenitsyn Reply    Reply with quote    Contact bear495   daniserralta Premium account Joined: Aug 02 Points: 11491 Posts: 124 Posted: 2005-08-21 13:36:00    Neutrality? Ethic? Is your post Neutral? Or more Ethic than my report? """"my many friends and familiars I do not know anyone thinking like this member, nor my neighbours or listening to the conversations in restaurants, pubs, in gardens, etc."""" Bullshit! """"minor party in that Spanish region"""" In the last spanish democratic elections the 3th and 4th most voted parties where Catalan, the 4th is a "Separatist" (We say Independentist.) Catalunya, our region, is now ruled by Catalan parties. PSC-ERC-IC But stop. What I'm doing? There's any post or report neutral?? A report is just a point of view ... your point of view, and evryone have his own point of view. isn't it? My point of view is as respectable as your. If you don't like my report about our lovely city just feel free to write another one better. That could be great for the Globosapiens comunity and they will have other points of view. But, who do you think you are to tell to the Globo Staff to advise or punish to another member?? """""and the Management Staff should advise of that to the members that do not comply with this. """"" Shit! That's weird. Really dictatorial. Obviously the Staff is much more openminded and nobody told me anything about that. Why you felt hurt? My report is never ofensive in any way. Everyone can read it. Don't waste your time answering this post cause I will not waste mine answering you again. I have more interesting things to do. If you feel hurt again, I'm sorry in advance. but start a posts-war ;) is not useful ... write to the staff directly. I think they will agree with me that's the best that you can do. Yeah! I know that there are people in Catalunya that don't want to be just Catalans and are happy to be Spanish. No problem! Where is the problem? And where is the problem if I say that I'm not spanish and I'm proud to be Catalan?? And not as you say, there are a lot of people like me ... in the streets, in the parks and in the gardens ... ________________________________________ Let's talk about politics in our reports. Why not? Politic is a part of history and life. As travel is for us. Do you travel to Cambodia without learn about the Khmers? or to Vietnam avoiding all reference to the Vietnam wars? Don't you visit the remainings of the wall in Berlin? what about the brutal spanish colonitzation of America? Politics is part of the country and their people. As much interesting as some other interests and, for me, much more interesting that come to Barcelona and just learn how to make a paella, a Sangria or do the siesta. Dani Serralta. Barcelona, Catalunya. --- The journey is the reward. -- Tao saying Reply    Reply with quote    Contact daniserralta   rangutan Premium account Joined: Aug 04 Points: 34752 Posts: 1044 Posted: 2005-08-21 14:02:00    Very interesting dual! I agree with Daniel that some political background should be incorporated into reports, sometimes very important but must be done cleverly and responsibly, even Jorges report on Jalalabad is on the borderline. I would like Daniel to edit the §%&$ words above before getting more involved in this. Note: In principle the Catalanians are just like us Bavarians, Texans, Scots, Zulus and others, we have to learn to be diplomatic though - respect culture, be open a bit to critisism ......!!! [ This Message was edited by: rangutan on 2005-08-21 14:14 ] --- Rudolf "Rangutan" Graspointner Reply    Reply with quote    Contact rangutan   davidx Premium account Joined: Dec 04 Points: 34719 Posts: 440 Posted: 2005-08-23 18:36:00    I don't claim to have a definitive answer here. I relate it to Daniel's recent report on Bulawayo. I had a holiday there in 1991, which was marvellous. We stayed with a black couple in their house in a suburb of Bulawayo and travelled with them to various parts. I hope I'm not being arrogant in believing that I could write some very interesting reports. I have settled on not doing, because I have always been against politics in travel writing. I am a moderator on a site where it is banned. On the other hand I couldn't feel at ease with myself if I wrote about it without political comment. Daniel has chosen to write about Bulawayo and make a comment. Whether that is more or less moral I honestly have no idea, but I do think it could lead to controversy that would generally be found unacceptable. I agree with his views, as do most people I meet - but I am aware that some people would dismiss this as 'white man's politics'. I should hate to see it lead to a political wrangle on racial lines and thus I try to justify to myself what Daniel may well think my cowardice. Best wishes to all, David --- Grieve not for that which you cannot do but rejoice in that which you can. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact davidx   isaacmolina Joined: Aug 05 Points: 1717 Posts: 53 Posted: 2005-10-25 18:13:00    I want to give my impression in this forum because I am Catalan, my mother too, but my father comes from another part of Spain, Extremadura. Both opinions are valid, Dani and Jorge, but they are old men. I have to say that we, young people, are very tired of this argument about the Catalan. In Francos’ times everything was in Spanish language, but now all the official signs in Catalonia are only in Catalan language (in the schools if you speak Spanish you will be reprimanded, even in the patio, playing with your companions), and the official Catalan propaganda is spreading that the Spanish “destroyed” Catalan culture and that are bad. I am in the middle; I love Catalonia and Extremadura, but also the whole of Spain. I can’t renounce to my roots. Presently there is a persecution of the Spanish language in Catalonia that I do not like. I speak both languages, Spanish and Catalan, both are beautiful. But I do not hate the Spanish, as the Catalan politicians try to make us do. If you do not show the advertisement of your shop in Catalan you will be fined or denied the permission to open your business. The reality in the street is quite different; in the pubs and discos 100 % speak only in Spanish, because Spanish is spoken by many hundreds millions of people, and Catalan just 3 millions like mother language, or half the population of Catalonia. The Catalan politicians are nasty, all the time they repeat: “Catalonia!” “Catalonia!”, so fanatics and obsessed, in all TV channels controlled by the Catalan sect, because they have transformed our beautiful land and language in a sect. Catalan politicians erroneously say that 12 millions people speak Catalan, because they include Valencia and Balearic languages (they are Latin dialects, but somewhat different, and most important: their people do not want to be included in the Catalan “Nazi-onalism”, they prefer 1000 times to die before that being Catalans. If you say to a Valenciano that the language that he speaks is Catalan, he can kill you!). Common Catalan people are very friendly and nice, but not their politicians, who want to make us believe that we, Catalans, are different and better than the rest of the Spaniards…!!! (jejeje). That is, better than the Andalusia’s who have the oldest history in Spain, with the millenary Tartessos culture, the genius Velazquez, Murillo, Picasso, Federico Garcia Lorca, etc., or the Extremeno genius painter Zurbaran and all the Extremeno explorers who discovered America and Oceania. Better than Aragonese, who thanks to their Kingdom the counties of the Hispanic Mark became Catalonia. Better than Asturias, the only region of Spain that the Arabs did not invade, thanks to them today Spain (including Catalonia) is a Christian country and where they speak their own language, very respectable and older than the Catalan: the Astur o Bable, etc. That is why we, young Catalans, the majority, those not belonging to any political sect (as Dani and Jorge I assume belong), want to live in peace with the rest of our compatriots and not transform Spain in another Yugoslavia. We speak what we like, with FREEDOM, and feel Spanish, Extremenos and Catalans and everything, citizens of the world, because 55 % of Catalonia is composed by citizens from other Spanish regions. As we say in Spanish about the present Catalan Nazi-onalist political propaganda: “me la suda”. VIVA SHARON OF WITHIN TEMPTATION!!! --- isaac molina Reply    Reply with quote    Contact isaacmolina   nedkelly Premium account Joined: Apr 04 Points: 5264 Posts: 81 Posted: 2005-10-26 12:09:00    I think if some people get offended that easily by what they read ....then maybe....I dont know......eeeerm....STOP READING!!!!!!! It should remain the individuals choice of what to write on here ...just as it is your choice what to read...... and if your afraid of a real opinion by a real person then maybe you should just stick with Lonley Planet books. Globosapiens offers a unique space in which to write in any way you choose so long as you are not being outwardly offensive to anyone and stick to travel writing there should be no problem!! Matt --- Do Not tip-toe through life to arrive safely at deaths door!! To surf or not to surf , flat? is the queastion. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact nedkelly   etelka610 Premium account Joined: Oct 05 Points: 587 Posts: 4 Posted: 2005-10-26 18:18:00    hear, hear! --- As the traveler who has once been from home is wiser than he who has never left his own doorstep, so a knowledge of one other culture should sharpen our ability to scrutinize more steadily, to appreciate more lovingly, our own. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact etelka610   toribio Joined: Oct 05 Points: 528 Posts: 14 Posted: 2005-10-26 21:16:00    YOUNG PEOPLE VERY RIGHT, isaacmolina, nedkelly, etelka610. GOOD! Reply    Reply with quote    Contact toribio