Suggestions group posting on GLOBOsapiens

Again about rating incognito

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jorgesanchez Premium account Joined: May 05 Points: 41625 Posts: 77 Posted: 2008-02-24 04:32:00    I am very pleased to see that an unusual new member has just joined Globosapiens. Recently he has contributed with lots of first class pictures taken in exotic and far-flung places, has written almost 30 five stars reports about places that many of us have never been or even heard about, some excellent Travel Tips, and a few amazing Albums. Nobody has done before so much in such a short time in Globosapiens. But when I checked the position of his reports in the general listing, I noticed with disappointment that his report of Easter Island, for instance, is in the position number 400! I wondered why that extraordinary report is beneath so many useless reports (from a traveller point of view) that have a much better position. Then I checked the rates, and saw that all the members that have written a comment, gave, invariably, 5 stars to the report. But two or three of them must have given 3 points or even less it that was possible at the beginning of the rating without any comment. Everybody is free to rate an excellent report with 2 or 3 points, maybe that person takes into consideration the style of writing rather than the contains of the text, or perhaps does not like the pictures. No problem, everybody is free to rate as he/she wants, but when it is evident that a report or picture deserves 4 or 5 stars, rating it lower is not fair. I am pretty sure that this new member does not care too much about the rating; he is a very enthusiastic good traveller, and is giving us altruistically lots of precious gifts. But for me it is a pity to see that some members use the anonymity to underrate the reports and pictures (it also happens just the opposite, sometimes). That is why I think that it is already time to show both, the voters and the points, at the same time, in reports and pictures. Better to have fewer rates, but honest ones, than many anonymously. I only hope that for February 2008 he will receive: MoM, RoM, AoM and AoM, all in row. Just my two Scudi (Order of Malta currency) --- Bonum est faciendum et prosequendum, et malum vitandum. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact jorgesanchez   andreas Joined: May 02 Points: 8309 Posts: 808 Posted: 2008-02-24 07:37:00    Hello Jorge, well spoken. I see the point. However this is not an easy task to solve, nor an easy question whether to allow anonymous ratings or not. You can compare it with other anonymity tasks. It is always the small edge in between to much control and freedom. I am sure you follow the news about data protection when it comes to surveillance and other things. Everybody has to be able to speak his mind in a free world without fear. Problem is if you loose the ability to be anonymous is that you might get into the fire if your opinion is not the same as the majority has. Imagine if you absolutely dislike a sort of writing style and you give 3 stars to such a report. You would be almost certainly under fire of other member - you maybe not but others without so much credibility. I often saw members very disappointed in receiving 3 star ratings for their pictures and wanted to know who rated so low. Giving out this information would put pressure on people to always rate high, just in favour of not being "attack" because of this. Compare it with voting for governments. If that vote would not be anonymous, democracy would not be in function. Everybody MUST have the ability to vote anonymous. We at GLOBO are in the happy to position to be able to choose if we want to be anonymous or not. You give up a lot of freedom if you drop anonymous voting. Is it really so bad that we are ready to do this? I am open for discussion on this topic, so far I have not seen an argument that is stronger than the one keeping the freedom on GLOBO. I am open for discussion on this, so please continue the posting if you or others see more strong points to change the system. Best regards, Andy PS: I will be off and away for the next 7 days with limited Internet connections. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact andreas   rangutan Premium account Joined: Aug 04 Points: 34752 Posts: 1044 Posted: 2008-02-24 14:14:00    Why do members often panic about rating? My trashy regurgitated notes: 1) Rating is extremely important feedback 2) A true average rating is reached after more than ~ 10 ratings 3) The average rating is NOT usually reached within two days! Panic? 4) Good material climbs the list 'ladder', sometimes slowly 5) There is no 'voting' at GLOBO, the term is often misused, also by staff 6) Some 5* reports are better than others. An occasional 4* is acceptable 7) Remember, 3* still means 'good' 8) Honest members leave a note with their rating (also for 1* material) 9) Rating is quick, says also ANONYMOUSLY, a thousand words 10) No report or image is perfect I am very impressed with the publications of our new member Krys. I put him in the 'hero' class of travelers at GLOBO together with Jorge, Wojtek, Danni and a few others. They are what makes GLOBO even better, like the cream on top of the cake. I hope Krys wins at least two awards this month and a few more in the future. [ This Message was edited by: rangutan on 2008-02-24 14:25 ] --- Rudolf "Rangutan" Graspointner Reply    Reply with quote    Contact rangutan   horourke Premium account Joined: Sep 04 Points: 11274 Posts: 142 Posted: 2008-02-25 01:05:00    I have entered this discussion many times when I believed the rating in a particular case was very difficult to understand. I am still certain that total transparency can be the best way to have work seriously rated. However no system is perfect and the current system is as good as humanly possible to devise. In the case of ratings that deviate from reasonable levels, members noticing them might contact others whose opinions they value and a consensus could restore balance in the particular case. The work is more important than the recognition and will as said above will reach a true appreciation over time. --- Hugh Reply    Reply with quote    Contact horourke   krisek Premium account Joined: Jan 08 Points: 84174 Posts: 203 Posted: 2008-02-25 23:17:00    Hi all, I would like to express my gratitude for all the kind words Jorge and Rudi have said in this forum. Frankly, I did not realise it was possible to see the overall position of a report, and I never checked. I obviously very much value all feedback, and I would like to encourage to leave comments - absolutely any kind (the more constructive the better, of course). Negative (sic!) feedback is not going to deter me from posting new material. In contrary, it will only determine me to enhance any material I decided or will decide to share. I am very passionate about travelling, and having been so fortunate to have visited almost 120 countries, I feel I have something to share. And I think I ought to. I am ever so happy to have found GLOBO, because I draw inspiration from it for my travel plans. I will continue submitting reports, because I really enjoy it (and so does my mum!) and I would like to ask everyone here to brace themselves, as I plan to submit many. Kindest regards, Krys --- Open your eyes. Free your mind. Touch lives. Sink into the different. Travel and belong. Profile photo: Palma de Mallorca. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact krisek   jorgesanchez Premium account Joined: May 05 Points: 41625 Posts: 77 Posted: 2008-07-25 07:46:00    It has been a good idea to show the ratings of the pictures in every member profile. Now, I would like to see also all the ratings of the reports, I mean all, not only those receiving a comment. I hope that the Management will consider once more that possibility, because now I think that the situation is just the opposite. It has moved from an extreme to the other. Now the first and second page of Reports look like a referendum of the Equatorial Guinea dictator Teodoro Obiang or Ceausescu in the old Romania times, when they obtained the 99 % or the 100 % of all the votes. As it has been said in other forums concerning the same topic, it is better to have fewer votes but honest (it does not matter if they are high or low, but truthful and open), than many but obscure and suspicious ones. I will tell you why: Amanda wrote recently a very good report that was on top of the first page, then one night it “disappeared” and was displaced to the 40th or 50th position. Then, I had several reports that I wrote recently with many 5 points rates. They were shown in the first page. Then suddenly, two night ago, somebody rated them with 3 points each. Of course, without comments. No problem, I do not complain, my reports are not better than other ones. But that member rated only Amanda and my two reports and no more in the list of 2400 reports, and only because there were in the first position, so disturbing the rest of the 19 reports written by Krys and listed in the first two pages. I have checked these last two nights several good reports movements, and I think that I know who has been (with a 99 % security) because I checked the ratings of reports that got 3 points, and simultaneously that same member I am referring had increased his/her record accordingly, with the 2 points reward given per report rated. Krys writes wonderful super 5 stars reports, but there are many other members who have also written hundreds of excellent reports (look at David Cross, Amanda, Marianne, and several more Globo members), but among the first 20 reports on Globo, the first 19 are Krys’s . That member I am taking about is from Poland. After several days observation I noticed that all the Polish members have had 4 and 5 points ratings in their pictures, but when that individual rates other nationalities, he/she gives 2 or 3 points only, and very rarely 4 or 5, for very good pictures, and he/she rates them when he/she sees that they might potentially compete with the best ones in the first Globo page of pictures, dominated by Polish members. If the picture is mediocre, harmless, that individual, usually, does not care to rate. (With Amanda wonderful picture Petronas Towers at night, and with my Nights were magical in French Antarctic Islands, that member can do nothing because those two pictures have too many ratings, and with a 3 points rate the situation does not change much). Perhaps the management should admonish that member (he also must know who he/she is). Just my 2 pesos jorge --- Bonum est faciendum et prosequendum, et malum vitandum. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact jorgesanchez   krisek Premium account Joined: Jan 08 Points: 84174 Posts: 203 Posted: 2008-07-25 15:05:00    Hello all, Jorge makes an interesting observation. I tried not to get bothered by the ratings, however discussions on the subject do bother me a little. As I said above in the previous communication on this topic, I am passionate about sharing my experiences, and those members who have visited my personal website would have known that. There are over 23 thousand GLOBO members, some more active than others, which gives a great audience to everything we submit. I have submited over 70 reports to date and I plan to keep writing more (there are four in progress already on GLOBO waiting for publication), regardless of my expectations regarding the rating. I would like to treat GLOBO as my travel website for my family and friends to see. Just like my personal website I created a few years ago. Of course I am very pleased that members comment my publications favourabily with many kind words. This is encouraging. Yes, many have been very popular but there are a few that have not, including those that I hope would have as they are about places visited infrequently by travellers. If were to vote on open rating, I would be in favour.<p>[ This Message was edited by: krisek on 2008-07-25 15:07 ] [ This Message was edited by: krisek on 2008-07-25 15:09 ] --- Open your eyes. Free your mind. Touch lives. Sink into the different. Travel and belong. Profile photo: Palma de Mallorca. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact krisek   christianj. Premium account Joined: Oct 02 Points: 6482 Posts: 69 Posted: 2008-07-25 15:27:00    Hi Jorge, I also noticed that there are several pictures of medium quality (at the best) that are placed within the Top 50, all published from the same member(s). I think, such a favouritism is embarrassing for the performer and not fair for all the other members. But!! I do not think much of overestimating the rating system. It's a great thing to be able to meet people from all over the world and to learn a little bit about their life and from their experiences. It's amazing to let other people find out something about your travels and the place where you live. In my opinion thats the heart of GLOBOsapiens - and I afford myself the arrogance to ignore a baublery as described by you. Just smile - and the world smiles with you (not every time, but often enough). Take care, Christian --- Just SMILE - and the world smiles with you!! Reply    Reply with quote    Contact christianj.   jorgesanchez Premium account Joined: May 05 Points: 41625 Posts: 77 Posted: 2008-07-25 16:31:00    Hi Christianj. Thanks for joining this forum Yes, your philosophical and humane comments are probably the best attitude. Thanks. I will take it easier. But, on the other hand, I am a traveller, travel is my passion, and when I see the efforts and enthusiasm that people have put in writing a report (such as Eirekey in Delhi, that won RoM and now in the position 120) and your extraordinary picture: Broken clouds above the Empire State Building which, by the way, I rated with 5 points and at that time had an average of 4.5 points, and that member I am talking about gave it only 2 points, I cannot avoid a cry of indignation and rebelliousness inside of me. Of course, nothing is wrong with Krys, he is an angel; he has given us his best gifts, I admire him as a traveller and a humane being. What he has done and still does for poor people in several countries of Asia and Africa (check the page Sponsoring in his web site) and Ethiopia (check his Harar report), is amazing. He is a good traveller with a great heart. But … I WILL SMILE! Just my 2 quetzalsn Jorge --- Bonum est faciendum et prosequendum, et malum vitandum. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact jorgesanchez   andreas Joined: May 02 Points: 8309 Posts: 808 Posted: 2008-07-28 13:23:00    Hello everybody, thank you for your feedback and all your insight thought. First of all I believe there is a misunderstanding of the report list found here: http://www.globosapiens.net/reports/ This is not an "all time top report list", like for example thre report of the months list found here: http://www.globosapiens.net/travel-reports-of-the-month.html The list is sorted not only by rating, but also by date published. So a 5-star report published yesterday will have a higher ranking than a 5-star report published a few weeks or years back. This is to keep the list fresh. Having so many reports from Krys in the list has a simple explanation - he published many many high class reports in the last weeks. They will stay there until other reports follow that have a good rating. The other point mentioned in this discussion is the transparency concerning the report ratings. I am happy to announce that this has now changed and follows the idea of the picture ratings. Please read my other forum posting concerning that matter. I would also like to take this opportunity to mention the excellent quality of most reports published on GLOBO. They have reached such a high standard that ratings are extremely close. Having a 4-star report among such a highly competitive surrounding is a fantastic achievement! Best regards, Andy Reply    Reply with quote    Contact andreas   Page: 1 2