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Film versus Digital

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rip_drifter

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Posted: 2008-08-27 13:54:00   

I am interested to see opinions on this subject.



I shoot film and some of my best reasons are:



I get to vist the lab frequently where I am known and can enjoy a cup of coffee and a chat while I wait.



I can feel, smell and scan anyway the images I create. They actiually exist in the real world.



Digital SLR's start at 200ASA whereas I shoot 50ASA Velvia mostly. No photographer would dream of sending anything shot on 200ASA film to a potential client (genre dependant).



Various films have subtle nuances of colour and grain.



If I really 'blow up' an image from film, I get grain. If I do the same with digital, I get blocks.



(One pic I shot on a friends digital P&S is in my gallery.)



Thanks in advance

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Best Regards, Mike Bruin


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krisek

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Posted: 2008-08-27 20:46:00   

Hi,



Depending how much you want to spend. There is a great digital Mamiya camera with 22 megapix, which is superb. Even the £450 Fujifilm S5 Pro (12.3 megapix) takes wonderful pictures with film-like results, of format larger than 1 meter wide. I printed scaled down A3 pictures from my Fujifilm S3 Pro and no-one could tell they came from a digital camera. Of course it depends on the printer, but you can always bring your digital shots for chemical processing to most labs with large printing machines.



It has been eight years that digital became favourite among the professional photographers when they took digital SLRs to the Sydney Olympic Games. Since then the cameras improved immensely!



I have always been keen on quality so I got my first digital camera only in 2003, while most of my friends had been using digital for a number of years... I do not regret having gone digital for a bit! Film was just too expensive (and slightly unpredictable) for me. Now, I can take a few shots and correct them while I am still on site. :)

---
Open your eyes. Free your mind. Touch lives. Sink into the different. Travel and belong. Profile photo: Palma de Mallorca.


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rip_drifter

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Posted: 2008-08-28 14:44:00   

Thanks for a totally objective reply.

I'm really trying to be objective about this.

I'm in the situation really where it doesn't really matter how good digital is, I cannot imagine shooting without film. The problem is, dealers are putting film out of business. My last pro Nikon (F3) cost about 400euro. The top digital Nikon costs about 7000euro, and my suspicion is that the dealers are just calling 'analogue' (as they like to belittle it in Germany, though I really wish they'd use proper descriptive language) a thing of the past because they make so much more profit from digital. They won't even stock a film camera in Munich any more.

My best question is: Why didn't the manufacturers just come up with a digital back for each pro camera. Like a data back for example.That way, we could have had it both ways.

This digital stuff is driving me out of my love, my life and my profession, or the way I like to do it at least.

For all those who enjoy it, I say: All power to you.

I just don't want to create things that don't REALLY exist.

My oh my...

I remember as a kid, my dad would hire a 16mm projector and a few families in the block would be invited around with their kids to watch the huge image on the sheet my dad hung up over the front window. Then video came along and destroyed the whole culture and pleasure. It was a huge step backwards. I just feel the same about so-called 'digital-photography'.

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krisek

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Posted: 2008-08-28 15:04:00   

Hiya,



Yeah, I know what you mean. I remember getting dirty in a dark room in my high school, we had organised under the main stairs. When I look at those out-of-focus granular, B&W prints I laugh out loud. It was such a great fun! But the life moves on and I am very impressed what one can do with Photoshop or Aperture - it equally strains the eyes but it is a little less drity :) and can be done virtually anywhere without the risk that someone opens the door and everything goes down the drain, hehe.



My dad is still on film (nothing special - just an old camera of mine) and last time he came to London and he ran out of rolls, we really had major challenge to find decent film, even at the photolabs!



Eh...

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Open your eyes. Free your mind. Touch lives. Sink into the different. Travel and belong. Profile photo: Palma de Mallorca.


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rip_drifter

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Posted: 2008-08-28 16:32:00   

Oh yeah, the school darkroom. My first print was a 'shadow' of my hand on a piece of paper under the enlarger... heh heh heh



Yes, you made a good point. Supply and demand. The thing is, and I know this is true in Munich at least, is that it's not the customers that are driving film photography out of business. It's the dealers and middle-men. They are doing everything in their power to kill film. Including using the term analogue photography, which I could prove to be a complete nonsense of the use of language.

"Hi, do you stock any film camera's at all?"

"Oooh, but you mean A_N_A_L_ogue sir, no I'm afraid we don't, but I could show you this nice 14000 euro canon digital"

"Does it do 50ASA?"

"erm... excuse me sir, I have a call waiting..."



I'd laugh, but I'm crying instead...

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Best Regards, Mike Bruin


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plancarpin

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Posted: 2008-08-28 21:48:00   

hallo Michael,

I agree with you about the fun one can have to chat or drink a coffee at the lab, instead of trafficking one's own pix on a pc..!! about sensibility, as far as I know, digital is with iso and film are (were) with asa...some dig cameras do now offer iso 50 , and still you can use the raw option if you really want to push your pix (but 20/22mb per pix is clearly a bit heavy when travelling)

I found this for you:

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Digital_Imaging/Sensitivity_01.htm

tell me, how did you transfer yr analogic pix to PC? are they coming from slides or neg?

Cheers

Jean Philippe

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One travels, not to change locations, but ideas. Hippolyte Taine (french philosopher)


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rip_drifter

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Posted: 2008-08-29 08:38:00   

Hi,

Thanks for that link.

I always shoot on reversal (slides) unless I'm shooting B/W, then it's neg.

When I hand a film in to the lab in munich, I get my film and a cd of scans back at the same time. The scans are only 6mb and not colour matched or anything, but for me it means I don't really need a digital camera. That is of course until the last roll of film rolls out the factory and the last E6 lab goes out of business. I do have a laptop and I do use it for my photography. I don't have anything against digital photography, but I disagree that it should wipe out film. I think they have crossed the line. For example, I am interested in 3d as a hobby. I once posted an image created in 'Lightwave 3d' of a digital female model on a photography site. A very nicely lit B/W nude image. I had only comments saying how great the shot was. I mean, if we go even further with digitl evolution, then we can buy a copy of vue or Lightwave and then people don't even have to buy a camera or go outdoors to create an image.

[ This Message was edited by: rip_drifter on 2008-08-29 13:32 ]

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rip_drifter

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Posted: 2008-08-29 08:50:00   

I also wanted to say that photography has always had difficulty being accepted as an art form, but without a visible tangible neg or slide as the starting point, we can forget completely whatever little cred we had.

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Best Regards, Mike Bruin


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plancarpin

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Posted: 2008-08-29 12:41:00   

hi Michael,

Yes I do agree with you!

let say that way: analog photography is an art by itself; digital photography is a nice and technically good enough support which allows enhancement thanks to digital treatment..then of course, the final result may slightly differ from the original.

creativity was through the lens, now creativity is postponed on a pc screen, sometimes long time after the initial shoot.

Very difficult to oppose one to the other. the actual fact is that digital is more than booming and analogic is hardly surviving, from basic users to pros; no one can deny this fact..anyhow, it is still good that one can still have the choice!! hehehe

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One travels, not to change locations, but ideas. Hippolyte Taine (french philosopher)


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rip_drifter

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Posted: 2008-08-29 13:44:00   

Amen,

You said it.

Let's just hope we have the choice for a loooong time!

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Best Regards, Mike Bruin


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