Open Board group posting on GLOBOsapiens

Globo policy to observe rules of restriced access Tourist sites.

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isaacmolina Joined: Aug 05 Points: 1717 Posts: 53 Posted: 2006-01-02 19:48:00    OK, I too will point out the following regarding this subject and the pictures that I took in Cathedral Toledo because I do not agree with a couple or three of the last forum postings: First: Camera, like television, radio, etc., is a good invention of the Humanity if used for good purposes. Second: I am not a foreigner in my own country and therefore I pay the taxes of which 0.7 % goes to the Church. Toledo cathedral does not allow to take pics because they have a kiosk in the “Sala Capitular” (main Hall where are the paintings of El Greco, Goya, Rubens, etc.) where they themselves sell the Cathedral pics in the form of postcards and books! (By the way, at very expensive prices). So they can take them but not the rest of mortals because that would make them lose business! They have the monopole of those pictures, but I am sure that the architects who in the XII century and on constructed that lovely Cathedral would be proud if they would know that nine centuries later visitors loved so much their work that they used an apparatus that the humanity invented to fix images, called camera, so useful, to have a nice souvenir of the visit to the Cathedral. But nobody take this into account. I am sure that those architects and artists would be against the commercialization of their effort and work in the Toledo Cathedral. Of course, my conscience is very very clean because I took those pics to stones inside the Toledo Cathedral (but not to the paintings because, as a traveller, my common sense tells me that is not good, and also not to the faithful people praying). Toledo is the only Cathedral where I have been in Spain where it is forbidden to take pics to the stones. Barcelona’ Santa Eulalia, Madrid’ Almudena, etc., is allowed, except with flash. So business, I guess, is the main reason for this prohibition in Toledo. That prohibition is just a today’s conventionalism. Maybe tomorrow will be again allowed by the Cathedral administration. Maybe if more tourists would take pictures inside, as I did, and did not buy their expensive postcards the administrators would again allow taking pictures to the stones (no to the paintings), so I contributed to the eventual withdrawal of that prohibition. Of course, as Ta-shi remarked, taking pictures of children in improper situation is to be punished by the Law. Anyway, the “good” that I did showing those pictures to my friends in Barcelona (I took at least 50, always on stones, statues and altars, etc., not on paintings, but in Globo I have shown only 2) and to whom might appreciate them in Globo, is much superior than the “bad” that I could have produced in the Cathedral Toledo business for not having bought postcards to the avid administrators. (Anyway, I would have never bought the postcards, even if I had not taken any photography, so the “bad” is zero) Please, no Torquemada’s in Globo! We all are travellers; we love this site and want to share with the rest of travellers our pictures, respectable and harmless pictures, such as stones in Cathedrals. Nobody is stealing from a supermarket by taking pics to a cathedral, that is an improper comparison. The stones are in their place. I did not remove any stone, but showed to the world through Globo the beauty of the cathedral, to people who probably never will have the opportunity to come to Toledo, or by showing them, the wish to come to Toledo. Happy second day of the year 2006 to everybody! --- isaac molina Reply    Reply with quote    Contact isaacmolina   ta-shy Joined: Jun 02 Points: 4110 Posts: 170 Posted: 2006-01-02 20:11:00    Hugh... I understand your point of view, however don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.. there will probably be lots of pics on globo that shouldn't have been taken and alot of pics of people that haven't been paid royalties for their mug shots.. but in all honesty to whom should Issac make a cheque out to for the pic of the church? "... taking from a supermarket (or rinok or other place of display and trading) any goods which have not been duly purchased and paid for. Where is the difference in taking images for which payment has not been made?" this statement has absolutely no bearing on anything. To compare outright theft with taking a pic and not paying for it is ludicrous !!!! Come on now.. one is outright stealing from someone and the other is a picture taken(by the camera owner--don't forget) without permission from subject.. you can only compare the two if the picture taken was of another picture, taken by someone other than yourself... hence... copyright.. Tashi --- LIFE IS AN ATTITUDE! ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU WISH YOU COULD! ALWAYS! Reply    Reply with quote    Contact ta-shy   horourke Premium account Joined: Sep 04 Points: 11274 Posts: 142 Posted: 2006-01-02 20:53:00    Hi Ta Shi and Isaac, I would defend your right to be wrong and likewise my right to diametrically disagree with you both. An example of the match between goods and images is the case of the ossuary at Kutna Hora in the Czech Republic. In addition to the admission ticket they sell camera stickers which give permission for you to take as many photographs as you wish. Charging for fruit is a convention that civilization may or may not apply as appropriate to the circumstances e.g. on the border between Mozambique and Zimbabwe in 1997, it was permissable to pick Guava fruit from the trees freely but in supermarkets in Harare it was required that you pay. The observance of the right of owners/ controllers to make rules with which invitees (the people legally entering premises under an admission contract) must comply, is an important aspect of European civilization and helps maintain peace among the members of society. In the contributions you both make there are many philosophical, historical, metaphysical (nature of the meaning of art/ artifact for example and reductio ad absurdum logic) , church/state relationship, morality of tax levy/tax avoidance, semi-legal and emotional points made. They all have relevance to some of the aspects of this discussion but unfortunately do not address the very simple question. "Is there a Globo Policy on display of Photographs taken against the rules of etc. " The question remains Hugh [ This Message was edited by: horourke on 2006-01-02 21:01 ] --- Hugh Reply    Reply with quote    Contact horourke   ta-shy Joined: Jun 02 Points: 4110 Posts: 170 Posted: 2006-01-02 21:25:00    the question was answered by Marianne.. Sec 6 of globo..it is up to you to interpet it however.. I sincerely doubt you will find something written in black and white on Globo that states "you can not take a picture of a person, place or thing with out specific permission from said person, place or thing" or in any legal terms of Copyright. Tashi.. p.s. I was just looking through your pics and found this picture of St. Vitus Cathedral, Prague, Czech Republic .. http://www.globosapiens.net/horourke/picture-nave-21727.html Doesn't that sort of fly in the face of what you were trying to point out in Isaacs picture? Isn't it a known fact that you shouldn't take inside pics of churches, cathedrals etc..? --- LIFE IS AN ATTITUDE! ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU WISH YOU COULD! ALWAYS! Reply    Reply with quote    Contact ta-shy   isaacmolina Joined: Aug 05 Points: 1717 Posts: 53 Posted: 2006-01-02 21:39:00    As another Globo member said, the camera is a continuation of our eye. And I agree. As you know, all this started as a vendetta against me by Mister Hugh with an unfair message to my guestbook, and because of my reply, he addressed to “the father of Globo” (andreas) requesting that my Toledo Cathedral picture should be deleted (without mentioning it directly). I checked Mr Hugh pictures and saw people in them (I am sure there were not asked permission to be photographed, and persons are more important than stones in a Cathedral) and animals that probably had owners. Nobody complained, I will never say anything to Mr Hugh. There are administrators in Globo and if they see some picture inappropriate they would intervene. (In Spanish we say that nobody should be more “Popist” than the Pope himself). I think that this forum id being conducted wrongly to the absurd. For instance, after Toledo I went to Andalucia and crossed the olives fields. I know that they have owners, but I took pictures of them without asking anybody. Then, during the pilgrimages of the Andalucian people I took pictures of their horses and chariots (again, without asking permission to their owners) and so on. If I would make copies of the pictures that I made in the interior of the Toledo Cathedral and sell them in the same pose that they are already in commercialization, competing with the cathedral kiosk, then, probably, I would be incurring in illegal activity. Following Mr Hugh criterion Marco Polo, Ibn Batuta, Livingstone, Hiuey Tsang, Magellan, Elcano, Colombus, Cook, Tasman, La Perouse… and so many today’s travel heroes would have never existed because they were individuals, often breaking conventionalisms. Following Mr Hugh criterion I would not dare to breathe because in every breath I kill millions of living creatures of the air, and to kill is bad. This is a travellers club, beautiful travellers club, not a XIX century puritan obscure society. If all the evils of our world today were to take pictures to the stones in a Cathedral where a business society forbid to do so, we would live in a still much more wonderful world. --- isaac molina Reply    Reply with quote    Contact isaacmolina   horourke Premium account Joined: Sep 04 Points: 11274 Posts: 142 Posted: 2006-01-02 22:07:00    Hi Tashi St Vitus Cathedral No there was no prohibition as I had paid the fee It actually proves the point I made Kind regards --- Hugh Reply    Reply with quote    Contact horourke   ta-shy Joined: Jun 02 Points: 4110 Posts: 170 Posted: 2006-01-02 22:21:00    Good save Hugh.. then I guess one should ask whether or not they paid the fee.. I can "say" I paid the fee to take pics in all the "forbidden" places.. Hypothetically speaking.. Me and you both have a pic of the Cathedral.. you paid to take your picture. I on the other hand snuck my camera and took the picture for free.. Both pictures are posted on Globo, should mine be removed because I did not pay for it? tashi --- LIFE IS AN ATTITUDE! ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU WISH YOU COULD! ALWAYS! Reply    Reply with quote    Contact ta-shy   horourke Premium account Joined: Sep 04 Points: 11274 Posts: 142 Posted: 2006-01-02 22:29:00    Dear Isaac I have not received your promised invitation to friendship. Have i misunderstood something? --- Hugh Reply    Reply with quote    Contact horourke   isaacmolina Joined: Aug 05 Points: 1717 Posts: 53 Posted: 2006-01-02 22:40:00    Mr Hugh I went again to your “friends” section in you page and clicked in it again, where it is writen: add horourke as your friend, as I did a few days ago, but appeared the phrase, more or less: error, you already made the request. I propose that you click on my “friends” in my page, and then I will confirm my acceptation. You only have three friends, gloriajames, szidonia and dipaks. Friendship is very important. I will be your four friend. And if you, as my friend, ask me to delete the comment, or even delete my picture that irritated you so much, I promise that I will do it straightaway, just for your friendship. A friend is more important than a stone or a picture. Best regards to you and the lady in your profile picture, I guess your wife. Globo is a wonderful site, is not it? --- isaac molina Reply    Reply with quote    Contact isaacmolina   horourke Premium account Joined: Sep 04 Points: 11274 Posts: 142 Posted: 2006-01-02 22:42:00    Hi Tashi Once again i emphasise this is not a question concerning any particular picture/ member site. It is a question prompted by a statement that a particular picture was taken in contravention of the location rules. It is a question of policy " Is there a Globo Policy on display of photographs taken against the rules etc.?" --- Hugh Reply    Reply with quote    Contact horourke   Page: 1 2 3 4