Travel Writing group posting on GLOBOsapiens

Guidelines: Report Writing

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marianne Premium account Joined: Sep 03 Points: 20248 Posts: 349 Posted: 2006-03-30 08:28:00    Rudi, Thanks for the feedback. Your suggestions are excellent and I have changed the text. Once it is completely right I will also post it in the forum; help and FAQ marianne --- “I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel’s sake. The great affair is to move.” Robert Louis Stevenson Reply    Reply with quote    Contact marianne   isaacmolina Joined: Aug 05 Points: 1717 Posts: 53 Posted: 2006-03-30 18:41:00    Marianne, these are my thoughts and recommendations to improve the quality of the reports: In my opinion there are too many reports in Globo rated with 5 stars. I have seen roughly 450, what represents almost 25% of the about 1900. I think that the correct crème de la crème should be about 5 %, maybe 10% at the most. Regarding pictures, we have approximately 27.000, but only 1200 with 5 stars, which is les than 5 %. For me that is a correct proportion. Some reports today granted 5 stars deserve only 4 stars, even in the first page of the 20 best reports. As a rule, as from now on I would adopt the following already fixed standard suggestion of ratings: * poor (infamous, can be disregarded without piety and nobody will regret it at all) ** regular (weak, need pictures and more text, but thanks for the effort my friend) *** good (OK, useful info, although short) **** very good (splendid, even with 9 paragraphs filled out, but still can be improved) ***** perfect ! (the 9 paragraphs fully filled with terrific contain and appropriate pics. Candidate to RoM) Please, let us start as from today giving 5 points only to those reports having the 9 superb paragraphs completed and 9 excellent pictures. I advise against the tendency to grant 5 points to well known members. The fact that they have previously written wonderful reports does not automatically mean that all their subsequent reports merit always 5*. As an illustration of this point, please see davidx “3 very different places” with only 6 paragraphs completed. Do you think that it deserves the 12th position among 1900 reports? I do not think so, there are many better reports in lower positions, but I was overwhelmed by his status in Globo and also gave him 5 points in that report, I am sorry. Today, following strictly the rules above mentioned I would have awarded it 4 points, even if in doing so davidx customary cordiality towards me would have been in jeopardy). I know already about two/three members (I do not want to point out their names here, but I think that you can guess) that are very exigent, and they always, as a rule, give less points than average, very rarely grant 5 points, and when they do so, then they usually accompany the rate with a comment, otherwise they vote anonymously. That is probably good to equilibrate those who give too many points for a mediocre report, so please, keep on behaving that way. Good to have changed pubs for Hangouts. Pubs suit better into Nightlife. Just my two Kopeks --- isaac molina Reply    Reply with quote    Contact isaacmolina   davidx Premium account Joined: Dec 04 Points: 34719 Posts: 440 Posted: 2006-03-30 20:15:00    Isaac Of course you should not give my reports, nor anybody else's, 5* if they aren't worth it in your opinion and you will jeopardise nothing by rating them less. I think you are possibly right in saying that 5* is sometimes given too easily. On the other hand, I don't think that report rating should be done on precise technical factors on whether all sections have been completed. I think a report on a single place can be excellent without it being very long; it can contain all the information that will help a prospective visitor. If that's right it seems to me of no significance whether the information is spread over all the sections or concentrated into fewer. I think quality of information and of expression, making full allowance for non-English speaking, are the essential criteria. Perhaps we should be more strict in applying them but, as Eire has said more than once, I do find myself astonished at times by the quantity of top class contributions coming in. If this is what leads to a high percentage of 5* reports, so be it. Cheers David [ This Message was edited by: davidx on 2006-03-30 20:17 ] --- Grieve not for that which you cannot do but rejoice in that which you can. Reply    Reply with quote    Contact davidx   marianne Premium account Joined: Sep 03 Points: 20248 Posts: 349 Posted: 2006-03-30 21:57:00    Isaac, Rating reports is very difficult, because people may have expectations. Some may rate higher than needed to encourage writers, others may not like the destination and rate lower, or the other way about. It is also possible that high ratings are given because all other reports of this writers had high ratings, or because the person is 'well-known' in our community, or perhaps they fear that their own report will be downgraded if they give low ratings. It would be nice if we had a kind of general rating system, and everyone who rates would use these standards. This brings us to another problem: we have no standards. This is one of the reasons why I wrote the report guidelines. Not only newcomers don't know what to expect also some 'oldies' don't know what a good report looks like. On the other hand writing a good report is difficult and time consuming. Not everyone likes this. Reports very often start promising, especially the first section. Further sections become poorer and poorer. I suppose this is because the writer wants to write the report in one sitting, preferably within 30 minutes. This is impossible. I agree with you when you say that there are many 5* reports that don't deserve 5*. In my opinion 5* should only be given sporadically. By writing the guidelines I hope that raters and writers get some idea what ideal reports look like. (If there is such a thing as an ideal report) This would also mean that all members are supposed to read the guidelines. It goes without saying that we can never force people to read them,let alone use the guidelines as an example. Too many 5* reports make GLOBO unbelievable. People come to GLOBO to find information about places they want to visit. The number of stars could be an indication that the report is worth reading. If this persons finds 5* reports with very mediocre information, he will go elsewhere and never consider signing up. (I had this experience on another travel site, which had a rating system but there was only the choice between: good and very good) I don't think that 5* can only be given to reports with all section filled in. A short report can also be excellent. I also agree with David that full allowance should be made for non-English speaking members. However, I do think that typos are inexcusable. In my opinion there are many Globies who write top class reports and therefore it is impossible to say that only a certain percentage of all reports can be 5*. I suppose that in the end if we all rate to what we think is fair, the ratings will sort themselves out, because the final number of stars is an average. However it would be good if more of us gave ratings. It is very rare to get more than twenty ratings to one report. There are surely more than twenty active members. Marianne [ This Message was edited by: marianne on 2006-03-30 22:00 ] --- “I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel’s sake. The great affair is to move.” Robert Louis Stevenson Reply    Reply with quote    Contact marianne   isaacmolina Joined: Aug 05 Points: 1717 Posts: 53 Posted: 2006-03-30 22:44:00    Marianne, I wrote my last message in this forum because you invited me to join and tried to give my opinion for everyone consideration. Of course, it is not definitely. I took the standard system to rate from 1 to 5 from Mortimer example. I agree that some special reports with less than 9 paragraphs fillet out can obtain 5*. Just imagine a Dani Serralta or Wojciech Dabrowski future report about their terrific recent journeys. (By the way, Wojciech is today navigating from St Helena to Ascension Island). If we see a report about, let’s say, South Georgian islands filled up with 5 or 6 paragraphs, because no pubs, no night life, no restaurants (only on board the ship), no hotels (tourists sleep in the boat cabins), but only with explanations about penguins, whales and the tomb of the traveller Shackleton, plus the adventures on the sea. In spite of the brevity of that supposed report the exotic and remoteness of the place compensates for the rest, and therefore that given report can aspire to attain 5*. Then, in the description of the 5* rating guide could be added as a plus the element of pure adventure and remoteness of the place, more or less what rangutan does when he discloses his ratings in the reports by elements of value. I do not pretend to impose 5* percentage, 5% or 10%, or whatever of the total 1900 reports so far. Let’s the law of the Globo members act, but let us rate according to a guide that could be Mortimer’s, for instance. Otherwise, let us start a “How to rate the reports properly” forum in order to establish a system accepted by everybody, maybe like a game. Look how successful is the new possibility to comment picture! Usually everyday there are more pictures comments than pictures. In that way the members would be more involved and more would rate the reports. Just my 2 pesos [ This Message was edited by: isaacmolina on 2006-03-31 01:12 ] --- isaac molina Reply    Reply with quote    Contact isaacmolina   st.vincent Joined: Mar 06 Points: 2322 Posts: 23 Posted: 2006-03-31 00:45:00    This sort of debate is why I think either I will stay with GLOBO, because of the diversity of opinions and the willingness of members to express those opinions, or maybe get frustrated with GLOBO because of what appears to be in fighting amongst its members about ratings. I’m not totally sure yet but I think I will stay and hope to contribute to this fascinating and diverse community. Although I have no great experience here I have read some older reports that I believe are outstanding and have given them 5 stars. Then I read some new reports that are good and are awarded 5 stars by the regular contributors and I feel obliged to also offer 5 stars. Maybe others feel the same and maybe that is why there is such a high proportion of 5 star rated reports. What I will try to do is to read reports, rate them and leave comments before looking at other comments and ratings. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, quality is in the eye of the reader. We all have different views about what is and is not a good report and we should not feel pressured or embarrassed about rating and commenting on reports in accordance with our personal views. The important thing is to rate every report we read or photo that we view, the more ratings there are the more representative the overall rating will be. We seem to have gone a bit off topic here, there are many other threads about ratings, let’s get back to the subject of report writing guidelines, I think we all agree that those put forward by Marianne will be very useful in encouraging members to write reports. Best Wishes Clive Reply    Reply with quote    Contact st.vincent   marianne Premium account Joined: Sep 03 Points: 20248 Posts: 349 Posted: 2006-03-31 09:24:00    Isaac, I am not quite sure if it is a good idea to start a new threat about report rating. It is true the photo thread gets lots of answers, but there were more matters to be discusssed, such as moderators and what are travel photos. I think best is to rate according Mortimer's ratings * Not worth reading ** Good info but no pictures *** Good info and a couple of pics **** Highly detailed info and many pics ***** Amazing effort -- every section is filled out with info and there are many pics Rating pictures is far easier than rating reports, because it is quicker and assessment is easier. Reading reports takes up time. I suppose those who take this time, have a fair idea of what a report should look like and will therefore rate accordingly, generally speaking. Another reason not to start a rating discussion is that it is no good having too many threads discussing GLOBO matters, as it may sound as if we don't like GLOBO the way it is. It may look as if we complain. Anyone who doesn't like the rating system or the report format or only posting travel related photos is free to leave. Marianne --- “I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel’s sake. The great affair is to move.” Robert Louis Stevenson Reply    Reply with quote    Contact marianne   rangutan Premium account Joined: Aug 04 Points: 34752 Posts: 1044 Posted: 2006-03-31 21:47:00    I like that what Isaac and Clive write, even though getting off-track the subject here! I must add that there is an error in the star display system at GLOBO, but not a bad one, just we must know that in the lists for reports and pictures ***** is shown for everything rated greater than 4.0! Usually > 4.5 makes 5? When one opens the picture and rates, the exact average is shown like example: www.globosapiens.net/bineba/picture-inside-the-colloseum-11834.html Is 4,06667, shows ***** in gallery list but is **** correct when opened in a new window. Similar for reports but we can’t see the EXACT average. Look at the borderline cases between 5* and 4* reports on page: www.globosapiens.net/reports/50122.html?cc= www.globosapiens.net/travel-information/La+Habana-495.html 17 voters say 5*? No, 4 comments in it gave average 4,1 www.globosapiens.net/travel-information/Vila+dos+Remedios-1723.html 20 votes say 5*? No, 5 commentators gave average of 4,0 www.globosapiens.net/travel-information/Savannah-2045.html 11 votes say 4*? Yes, 5 commentators gave an average of 4.2 Isaac, there are really far fewer ***** reports than you counted! This should be corrected one day and is not really a problem. Important is that the reports are sorted in average rating and not everybody rates MOST reports ***** like some do ;-) RR P.S: For report rating tips see: www.globosapiens.net/topic-rating-reports_48_1279_0000.html --- Rudolf "Rangutan" Graspointner Reply    Reply with quote    Contact rangutan   vbx000 Premium account Joined: Oct 04 Points: 3067 Posts: 5 Posted: 2006-04-01 03:01:00    It is a very good guidline for report writing, when I first joined I really just dived into the form itself without really knowing/understanding what was expected or wanted. But, bootlegga has a really good point too. The form is good if you don't know exactly how to format the report, or need help getting started but I rarely followed any headings. Often, I used the headings (especially on smaller places that wouldn't "fill" a report) to get the extra picture space. I don't think it matters if the pictures are related to the headings as long as its related to the city. I don't want to see clubs, hotels, or the eiffle tower... I want to see unique shots of unique people/places. Then again, it could be argued that my reports followed very little rhyme, reason or direction. :-) I just think making the reports engaging, fun and creative add a lot to the reports. All of the senior members have a distinct flavor to their report style, and I think thats one of the many things that make globo special. --- ~Weikafei~ Reply    Reply with quote    Contact vbx000   vbx000 Premium account Joined: Oct 04 Points: 3067 Posts: 5 Posted: 2006-04-01 03:09:00    Thats weird, I didn't see all the ratings posts until after I clicked "reply." When I first clicked on "page three" there was only the one comment from Marianne. It seems like the rating issue always resurfaces. I'm not sure I understand really, I mean the rating is important because it arranges and organizes the massive amounts of information that globo processes but other than that... they are just little stars at the bottom of your page. Some people may find a "3*" more amusing/informative/sparks interest to travel there than a really long, kind of dry but detailed 5*. Quantity (or length of the reports) shouldn't equate to the quality of the overall report. (I just wanted to make a post that was related to the current thread haha) --- ~Weikafei~ Reply    Reply with quote    Contact vbx000   Page: 1 2 3